The sad truth: Your scanning app isn’t showing you many FBA offers. Here’s why.
I don’t want to break any hearts here, but if you’re a Fulfillment by
Most sellers know this. What surprises me is that many sellers don’t.
Here’s the story.
Everything changed on September 1st, 2012
That’s when all
Prior to this date, FBA scanning apps displayed the lowest 5 or 10 FBA offers.
Then (mostly) quietly one day in September, 2012, the lights on FBA data went dark. FBA offers stopped being displayed on scanning apps – unless there was an FBA offer in the lowest 20 offers.
I was there when this happened, and a lot of sellers had no idea this change had even occurred. And it would have a massive affect on my
So what happened?
Why did all FBA scanning apps suddenly stop showing (most) FBA data at the same time?
The answer is
To understand how this happened, you have to understand two things:
- What an “API” (application program interface) is.
- Why
Amazon doesn’t want us pricing our items high.
API’s: This isn’t very interesting, but basically API’s are how
And in 2012,
Now I’m going to tell you why…
Warning: Some of what what I’m about to say is not proven fact, but me reading between the lines. I’m not a real journalist, so I’m allowed to do this.
Why
It appears
What I believe to be true: When we price our Fulfillment by
One of the biggest enablers of our high-pricing habits were scanning apps that showed us exactly what other FBA offers we were competing against.
So if I scan a textbook ranked 30,000, and I can see there are a hundred penny offers, and the lowest FBA offer is $35, then I know I can sell that textbook at $35. And I will.
Once
Wait a minute Peter: When I scan some items, I do see FBA data, sometimes. So what are you talking about?
You will see FBA offers, sometimes. But hardly any.
The only time you’re seeing an FBA offer is if it’s in the lowest 20 of all offers. That’s
I know most of you know this already. But a lot of you don’t. And it’s probably hard to hear. But it’s 100% true.
For example, here’s what FBA Scan (the app I use) has to say about this, buried in their user agreement:
“For each item,Amazon will get 20 lowest prices in both used and new condition, then sort them into different groups based on condition, fulfill channel (FBA or merchant), and seller rating.Amazon will then return only the lowest price from each group back to our program. So our program will only display lowest price from each group.”
This is a little vague for me. And I wasn’t entirely satisfied with how forthright the scanning apps were about this (massive) change when it happened.
What I found particularly disingenuous was the attempts of at least a couple apps to spin this restriction as a “positive,” when it clearly wasn’t.
Here is an excerpt from the FBA Scan site, describing the “advantages” of the new API restrictions:
FBA sellers don’t care about getting “jammed” with “lowballs,” or getting a “broader” look at the market. We just want to know our FBA competition. That’s it.
I’m not saying the scanning app companies are lying, but…
…they’re not exactly putting these details front and center.
And I get it. You put a lot of work into building a software product to help
And I would probably do exactly what they’re doing. Be open about the new restrictions, but not exactly put it out there front and center, and not exactly yell from the rooftops that as a user of their product, you’re not seeing all the
They don’t want to provoke a mass exodus of users. I get it.
And if you started selling post-2012, all of this might be news to you
I’m noticing a ton of newer sellers (possibly most) have no idea about any of this. They take the data displayed on their scanning app at face value, and assume if the FBA column is blank, there are no Fulfillment by
Then of course, they find out the hard way that’s not true when they go to list. But they’re still not sure what’s going on, or who is to blame.
I don’t know how these data blindspots can’t be anything other than totally obvious. I mean, if you make a book purchase assuming there’s no FBA competition, and you get home to list and find there are 20 FBA sellers, you’d have to figure out what’s going on pretty quickly, right?
Well a ton of sellers I’ve talked to insist the app they’re using is showing them all the data. And it’s simply not.
With FBA data, no scanning app is better than any other
There’s no need to play favorites here, or make claims that any particular app shows more data than any other. They are all restricted from
I’ve spoken with developers about this, and no one gets any preferential treatment from
So don’t wait for a “better”
Is there a silver lining to this?
I don’t have any statistics to back this up, but I suspect that when apps stopped showing Fulfillment by
So what are Fulfillment by
There are a couple of methods (one crude, one more advanced) that
The simple one: When all other data checks out (sales rank, etc), we click through from the app to
The more advanced one: Through trial and error, some of us have learned a cool trick using some advanced math to determine if a book has a high probability of having no Fulfillment by
This is probably a topic of a future post, but the basic idea is: The better the rank and the fewer the merchant fulfilled offers (things FBA scanning apps still show), the better the likelihood of there being no Fulfillment by
Like I said, I’ll save the details for a future post. But you get the idea. And this works.
To end on an empowering note
If you’re savvy, you can still get the data you need.
It’s a setback, but like all setbacks, they present opportunities. And the opportunity is:
Fulfillment by
Endnote
If you’re a part of an FBA forum or Facebook group for
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BOLD post, dude, and I think you’re 100% right about this. Personally I love when these little things happen, because there tends to be a small/medium exodus of sellers that clear the deck. Bravo for putting your integrity first instead of just glad-handing the scanning app co.’s.
Totally agree. The small hurdles make greener pastures for those of us who are undeterred.
Excellent article. I get this question all the time. Now I can show them this blog post to help explain it.
Thank you so much for posting this info. I am a new seller and I had NO idea about this. This is a game changer for me. Thanks again!
I believe the Amazon Sellers App, which can scan barcodes, shows all FBA information.
Karl
I haven’t played around with the Amazon Sellers App so I can’t conclusive say that it does not show FBA data, however being that its put out by Amazon I would be very, very surprised.
And also: While the Seller’s App does allow you to scan barcodes, it is not a scanning app to use when out sourcing in the same way the apps I’m speaking of are. It doesn’t have many options and wasn’t exactly designed for sourcing. I would definitely encourage sellers to use a paid app.
Peter Valley, I am new with Amazon and FBA. Could you please explain why paid apps are better than free? Could you show some examples?
The Amazon seller app is not a scouting app and does not perform most of the functions of a scouting app.
I am a new seller that have experimented with Profit Bandit and the Amazon Seller app, only to stick to the amazon app for that apparent reason.
If I am not mistaken, the amazon seller app does show all the FBA availabilities and the amazon (itself) selling price, regardless of the larg price difference between FBA and non FBA offers.
For instance, I just scanned a book now, and it’s shown as low price of $32, while $130 from amazon (itself), and 3 FBA offers from $70.
Please confirm or refute this as it’s important as you have highlighted.
I don’t use the Amazon app for the reason that it is not a scanning app and has little of the functionality of a paid app, so I can’t say for sure what data it shows. All you have to do to confirm is click through to Amazon’s page and compare.
I don’t want to start an argument, but you say you don’t know a lot about the Amazon seller app, but you also say that it’s not effective for sourcing. You should try it some before continuing to defend that position. It’s really improved over the past year and works for sourcing. The two caveats are that it’s slower and requires an internet connection. But I like the data it provides better than the “pro” apps (but those are serious caveats).
I love the sourcing box set you just put out – it’s going to make me a boatload of money!
Thanks re: box set. Glad you’re getting value from it.
Seller app: Everything I wrote is accurate as of 6 months ago. I do hope its been improved. That would be a blessing.
Karl,
As far as I can see on the AZ Seller App, it still cannot be used with a BT scanner. That is the biggest fail in my opinion. Also the New and Used are on different tabs still.. really cumbersome. And clicking over to see the offers still has no way to sort by FBA only. I dont see anything that has really changed. For me it is useless for books.
Great post as usual. Thanks for clarifying the reality that many of us have been coping with somewhat in the dark.
Very helpful, as always! Thanks, Peter.
Great post. Peter I have a question for you. Does Amazon limit what FBA data you see to PDA scanners or is that just for online apps like profit bandit?
It’s for all third party software across the board.
This is why we’ve added the All FBA button and lesser so the CamelCamelCamel button in Profit Bandit. We preload this information so you can click through the fastest to see all the FBA items on the Amazon page.
We think it’s pretty fast, but you should try it out for yourselves.
Very cool. Good to know and thanks for sharing.
Peter,
Great Posting, I do understand that Rankng is important in deciding if this item is worth selling, yet newer Sellers ONLY look at Rank and don’t take the amount of other Sellers, is item a Seasonal item, etc… Many Sellers only want to make a sale TODAY and don’t want to do their homework…. Guess that’s FINE WITH ME 🙂
Fine by me too.
I’m pretty sure it’s not “illegal” to show all of the data if you get it another way than amazon’s approved channels. If you use scraping tools, it is a violation of the user agreement that we all agree to when we sign up for an MWS account. In that case it might be illegal.
According to the lawyer I spoke with, screen scraping data and reselling is essentially a copyright violation. Same as if you took articles on this site, published in book form, and sold it. Intuitively, this makes sense.
Profit Bandit now has a button labeled All FBA that will most times show FBA Sellers when not any were showing before.
I feel like there’s something scary between the lines here. If Amazon is against pricing high for FBA, that makes FBA unprofitable and ultimately no good. The fees are so high that it wouldn’t be worth it at all to price the same or close to FBM offers. If Amazon is against FBA merchants getting high profits, what can we do?
hi there Peter! I see your point 100% (I’m also 100% FBA), but I’d like to disagree a little. You keep saying that FBA prices SHOULD be way higher than MF prices. But you never say why it SHOULD be that way. The answer is simple, because you make more money. That’s perfectly fine, I’m a capitalist as well. But here is where I begin to see a problem. The FBA prices are often artificially over-inflated. The only reason people are willing to pay much more (and they know that they’re overpaying, they’re not stupid. They can see all the MF offers, even if they are a Prime customer) is because they have no choice. Usually, they’re in a hurry to get the book, and that’s where you come in, and take advantage of the situation. I do that too. Sure, Prime is a premium service, and the customer should pay more, but way, way, way more? You may say, “it’s all about supply and demand”, or “what’s this book worth to you? If you will pay $100 for a $30 book because you must have it for your class on Monday, then I’ll sell it to you”. But it’s kinda like selling someone a fire extinguisher for $1000, because you know they’ll pay, because their house is on fire. My point is that FBA prices, especially for books, have been over-inflated by us, sellers, taking advantage of the Prime situation. The problem is, industries and businesses who adapt this business model never last. Amazon knows that, and that’s why they’re trying to change it. This may be hurting us, FBA sellers in the short run, but believe me, this is a good thing in the long run. If you want Amazon to stay on the top of its game, and be the king of the merchant world, they must do this. Otherwise, Alibaba, and the likes will eat it alive one day. Enjoyed the class, by the way
I am 100% comfortable charging more for added value. On top of that, to charge less than what a customer is willing to pay for faster shipping, etc, turns FBA into a charity. Essentially we would be subsidizers of those who wait until the last minute to order books and need our second day shipping, so I can’t agree there.
And history has shown it is business that operate on razor thin margins that get crushed and don’t last.
sure, and razor thin margins are another extreme, that no one is talking about in this case (I certainly am not the one to advocate such business practices. for example, my profit margin is at least 50% on a bad month, and I know that yours is at least that much as well probably). I understand your point completely, but here is how Amazon is looking at it. “our prime customers pay $100 a year for free 2 day shipping, but in reality, the FBA merchants incorporate the shipping premium into their prices anyway, plus some more on top of that. If the word gets out that prime customers aren’t really saving $$ on shipping at all by using our Prime subscription (and by the way Prime isn’t all that fast. I shop both, and MF orders arrive just as fast most of the time), but paying more instead, that could hurt us”. And guess who else is gonna get hurt if people will stop subscribing to Prime? Us, FBA sellers, maybe? This isn’t just with books. I’m a prime subscriber. I was looking for a liner for my book cart on Amazon. Prime had one for $19.95. MF had one for $5.99 with free shipping. Guess which one I got? and it arrived just as fast as Prime. I’m a human too, and I just want $$. I just want to charge Amazon’s dear precious Prime customers 5X, if I can, and take the cash. However, I also understand that my business partner, Amazon, will not like it, and will try to change it somehow. That’s why they’re fighting back. I get that prime is much more than shipping (movies, music, etc…). You also said that this whole used book business is a very small part of your vision for your future. That’s why we may be seeing things differently a little. My point was simply to explain why “evil” amazon took away FBA data from us, “poor” FBA sellers.
My question would be: Why do Amazon’s work for them in advance of possible future restrictions? If they choose to force prices down through whatever means they decide, I would prefer to get while the getting is good until that day.
What I find hilarious is that oftentimes the lowest FBA offer shown is an inflated price. So if I were to list my book at that price, my price would be inflated. Nice job keeping prices low Amazon! If they want lower FBA prices, just give us sellers full disclosure on the prices and let the market stabalize. As it is now, pricing FBA items is like a room full of bling men throwing darts at a moving target. I just dont see any real logic to Amazons decision in this.
Peter, do you know of any repricers that use the subscriptions API to get the low FBA price? I believe this is possible if an item is in your inventory (in stock also I think) to get the low FBA price. I have asked 4 different repricer companies and t hey all say “coming soon”, but my goodness, it has been over 2 years. Any advice in this regard? Thx.
I’m hearing “coming soon” as well. No specific insight on this end.
Preach it! I felt a bit betrayed by how coy the app companies were about this earthquake level change in the data. Much of their ad copy still lies about showing lowest FBA offers. Neatoscan’s ad still says on the booksalefinder site that they show lowest 5 FBA. I contacted them and they said they would change it… they never did. What is that if not an outright lie.
Great article Peter! I use FBA Scan too and the biggest benefit for the paid app is the downloadable database. It’s super fast too.
Last weekend I sourced over 150 books at our local FOL book sale I got a handful of results saying “No FBA” and when I got home and checked it was true! There were no FBA sellers for these particular books 🙂
Ok so what is the best way to price a book if there are no FBA sellers and you’re getting a buy with FBA Scan?
That depends on the rank, but if it’s good, all the way up to within a dollar or even 50 cents of Amazon’s price.
I don’t sell books but have been getting restricted messages for awhile now
I use the Free AZ seller app and it has started showing me stock restrictions…. don’t know if it is 100% accurate….. yet I think i am going to start trying to send merchandise before I buy it no one wants to be stuck for sure not on non returnable merchandise.
Can you point me to your post on the algorithm you use to estimate if there might be prime offers based on the merchant fulfilled offers?
An important point that I don’t notice being mentioned is what repricing software has to do with this. Think about how almost all medium to large merchant sellers use repricers that pull from the same API data. How does this affect the price? It lowers it to $5 or $6 on almost every book. Now consider what would happen if all the medium to large FBA sellers who currently use repricers had API data showing lowest FBA prices. The automated race to the bottom would be a slippery slope indeed (although the minimum price would still be higher than MF).
Part of why Amazon restricted FBA data on the API might have been to keep FBA prices higher, considering what repricers with full FBA data could do to the prices. But why would Amazon want FBA used offers to be higher?
1. So when a Prime customer compares buying a pricey used FBA book to a new book from Amazon, Amazon’s new offer doesn’t seem like that much more, and they buy the new one from Amazon.
2. Even if a customer chooses your pricey used FBA book, think about how Amazon is still getting a pretty good cut of the sale that is based on a percentage of the sales price.
So, Amazon may want your prices to be higher, and I think that’s why they restricted the API.
It’s also why you shouldn’t mind doing manual initial pricing and periodically doing manual repricing. I bet a lot of sellers assume their repricer is catching all of the FBA prices. In reality most of the books aren’t even being touched by the repricer, when you look into your “compare with FBA offers”.